They did things differently then

"Cé hé sin" (michael-m-mouse) 05/16/2020 at 18:05 • Filed to: Handley Page HP 42, Planelopnik

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Back in the 1930s you could travel by HP 42 and HP 45. Travel by printer? No, not them. Handley Page. They (and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ) did planes.

Yes, th e lower wing was bent. That helped with headroom.

The HP 42 was the biggest passenger plane in the world in 1930 but for all that it carried only 26 passengers who had their choice of the forward saloon, the cocktail bar (only two at a time mind) and the rear smoking lounge. First class only of course. This was not a low cost operation. Later HP added the HP 45 which had more power and a different passenger/cargo split (more of the former, less of the latter).

They all had names, so the 42s were Hannibal, Horsa, Hanno and Hadrian and the 45s Heracles, Horatius, Hengist and Helena. The observant will notice a pattern and the more observant a second pattern. I thought there was a third until I reached Helena.

One could travel all the way from the UK to South Africa by HP 45 but not in one day. Oh no. The itinerary could include some or all of these stops:

Paris

Marseille

Pisa

Taranto

Athens

Sollum

Cairo

Luxor

As wan

Wadi

Halfa

Atbara

Khartoum

Malarial

Mongolla

Jinja

Kisumu

Tabora

Abercorn

Ndola

Broken Hill

Livingstone

Bulawayo

Pretoria

Johannesburg

Kimberley

Bloemfontein

Cape Town

The ones we’ve never heard of are in what used to be the pink parts of Africa and have in some cases been given non- colonial names since . Amongst these there were three or four overnight stops when the passengers were accommodated in suitable style in nearby hotels.

Each leg was in the region of four or five hours so the passengers were wined and dined aboard in a manner not reminiscent of Ryanair. Bone china and silver cutlery were used and drink flowed freely, especially in the cocktail bar. Food and drink were in the hands of a steward. No, not a stewardess. This was work for a chap. More chaps were to be found up at the pointy end as this was at least a generation before women commercial pilots were a thing and at least another before they stopped being oddities. Still not common, mind. In the past ten years I’ve been on a fair few planes and I could count the number of female voices I’ve heard from the flight deck on the fingers of one hand which has had a nasty injury. Interestingly, female pilots were more of a thing in th e previou s generation because this new activity had not yet been masculinised. Those with an int erest in gender studies can research this..

The general ambience was intended to be that of a pullman railway coach, so also not Ryanair.

This is the front saloon, looking back though the corridor to the bar and smoking lounge beyond.

Yes, you dressed up to fly then. Quite right too. Only th e proper sort could afford to fly.

There were however downsides attached to all this fine dining because planes then flew low and slow (the HPs did about 100 mph or about the same as a non high speed inter city train today) and consequently were much more prone to nausea inducing movement. There was quite a good chance you’d be seeing your splendid lunch again.

Both 42s and 45s had the distinction, and it wasn’t a common one then, of never losing a civilian passenger (one plane disappeared with all aboard after being taken over by the military) despite the fact that the whole lot of them were lost by 1940 due to fire, forced landings and being blown around on the ground (those big and multiple wings provided plenty of lift at low speeds and did this just as well in a strong wind) .

There was a plan in the 2010s to build a replica but nothing came of it. Similar plans for several other types went the same way, unlik e projects (by the same kind of people probably) to recreate steam locomotives which I’m guessing is down to this whole dropping out of the sky if you get it wrong thing which i s less of an issue on th e rails.

ttyymmnn > Cé hé sin 05/16/2020 at 18:12

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Nice write up. I had never noticed the bend in the lower wing. I imagine it also helped keep the main landing strut shorter. 

Cé hé sin > ttyymmnn 05/16/2020 at 18:21

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I suppose that depends on how you look at it. Did they raise the middle portion (headroom) or lower the outer portions (shorter undercarriage, less of a step up for pax?)

ranwhenparked > Cé hé sin 05/16/2020 at 18:25

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In the days when all long distance travel was a luxury, people expected it to be luxurious.

This would have been the only credible competition on the UK -South Africa route

The new sisters RMS Winchester Castle and Warwick Castle , introduced by Union Castle Line in 1930.

Of course, the trip to Cape Town was closer to 12 days this way, but at least you had a mini golf course on board to pass the time. 

ttyymmnn > Cé hé sin 05/16/2020 at 18:27

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Well, the Wiki says it keeps the spar from passing though the cabin. Likely a design that serves multiple purposes. 

kgman > Cé hé sin 05/16/2020 at 18:29

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Very cool. Well written too

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Cé hé sin 05/16/2020 at 18:34

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Nice writing! I find it interesting how women were almost always right in with the men in new technologies like this and eventually got kicked out; flying was one I wasn’t familiar with but you see it time and time again. Racing and driving come to mind before they were deemed “work for a chap.”

I also like that cutaway diagram. The poor wireless operator gets an airborne coffin with a radio in it and nothing else.

Chariotoflove > Cé hé sin 05/16/2020 at 18:53

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Cool write up.

Yes, you dressed up to fly then.

I’m not sure when this changed fully. When I was a child in the 70s, I learned from my parents the example that you dressed at least  “half-way decent” to fly (an expression my mother used to indicate the rough equivalent of business casual). When I flew, even not for business, as young adult up to the 2000s, I adhered to this standard, as did much of the public around me.

Somewhere along the way, the flying public switched to flying in cutoff shorts, etc. with the general look of teenagers just rolled out of bed. These days, if everyone around me in coach showered that morning, I call it a win.

ranwhenparked > Chariotoflove 05/16/2020 at 19:20

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I still kind of do, because I tend to always bring at least one suit, or at least sport coat, with me when I travel, in case I want to go somewhere nice, and wearing it is easier than packing it. Also, I like having the all the  extra inside pockets.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chariotoflove 05/16/2020 at 19:36

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I think it was mid 2000s when those juicy sweatpants came out, and middle age women thought it was ok to pretend to be a teenager. A dults gave up. Then late 2000s when it extended to full pjs in stores.

Chariotoflove > ranwhenparked 05/16/2020 at 20:04

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Absolutely.  I always make sure I wear durable stuff with good pockets.  There is too little storage on a plane.

Chariotoflove > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/16/2020 at 20:06

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I find a bit of wry humor in the rise of women’s clothing with stuff to read on the butts and chests coincident with the movement to get men to stop staring at butts and chests.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Cé hé sin 05/16/2020 at 20:43

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i guess there is another place called Broken Hill?

i only know of the one here in Australia. 

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Chariotoflove 05/16/2020 at 22:05

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Out of college I was at fortune 500 company headquarters, and they added a whole software wing. There were some pushing the casual direction, but then they ran into issues with some of the women. N ot interns, late 20s, wearign stuff fit for a club. It was funny as HR had to get involved and people were sent home to change. There various employee clubs, one being a young professionals and the club head had gotten in trouble twice. From conversations I knew s he was older than me

Chariotoflove > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 05/16/2020 at 22:12

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Ugh. It’s kind of amazing how so many people want to be taken seriously but don’t realize how personal presentation impacts that. 

Cé hé sin > pip bip - choose Corrour 05/17/2020 at 02:46

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I guess so, unless the route to SA was very circuitous indeed...

Cé hé sin > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 05/17/2020 at 18:19

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You could write a thesis (and I’m sure people have) about why women played a less significant part in aviation as time went on. I don’t think it’s that fewer women flew (after all you had the likes of Amelia Earhart and there were a fair few women delivering planes in WW2 ) bur more that there were more men and the proportion changed dramatically. One reason may have been the ending of WW1 bringing with it a large number of now unemployed male pilots seeking flying work.

Yes, I noticed the radio operator’ s little cabin. Makes sense I suppose. The passengers and mail paid the bills, the crew were an expense!

Interestingly I didn’t see any reference to an engineer which is odd as they still had them decades later.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Cé hé sin 05/17/2020 at 18:24

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Did you see that thing on the FP about how women were impacted by the bicycle? Very interesting there.

And yes I do think you are right about that.